Episode Transcript
Speaker 2 00:00:05 Hey everyone. Daniel Topo here, and welcome to the Dancing with our podcast, where we go deep into how leaders have overcome adversity to unleash their success, and delve into why we're really here. On today's episode, I'm sitting down with the legendary Connie McKee. Connie brings a wealth of international and cross-sector experience spanning 35 years in executive and C-suite roles in the financial services technology and non-for-profit industries. She has a history of leading highly successful teams that deliver exceptional results and track record of growing sustainable businesses. Her professional achievements in advocacy for diversity have been recognized and are reflected in industry awards such as women and finance, ceo, e o of the year twice. Connie now spends her time on advisory boards and businesses that make an impact and enjoying the greater life balance that comes from not running a stock exchange listed company. I personally know Connie from the time she hired me back in 2016 as a relatively green project manager on a large scale FinTech transformation project at OneView Limited.
Speaker 2 00:01:11 With Connie's back in support, I was able to rise up through the ranks to an executive position, eventually heading up to high performing teams. Looking back, I owe Connie and her management team big time. Of course, it was a baptism of fire, but I would never have got to where I am today without investment trust and backing. And this is something that I personally cherish and celebrate as a professional. The notion of trusting and giving people the space to grow and shine. After all, leaders aren't born, they're made. We'll be getting into a whole host of interesting topics, probably too many to list out here, but including developing self resilience in the face of adversity, not letting your past define your future, and the supreme importance of balance in life. So for me, this is a really deep dive into just trusting your gut and leading with the heart, both in business and elsewhere. Do yourself a favor and don't miss this one. It's deep, it's raw, and it's absolute gold from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for letting me your ears wherever in the world you are. I hope you find this episode insightful and stimulating season one, episode two. Let's do it, Connie. So glad to have you here. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 00:02:26 Thank you very much Daniel, and for the nice intro,
Speaker 2 00:02:30 <laugh>. And Connie, before we dive in, I, I just wanna say something I guess from the heart, and I really feel very, very honored to be sitting down with you today. You're a leader that I really admire, and to have this opportunity to hold space with you for our listeners is actually something I've been looking forward to, um, pretty much since I conceived the idea of this podcast. Um, in fact, you are one of the first people I just had to approach. And as you're aware, this is our second episode. I can confidently say that I'm still quite nervous. Um, the heart beating the tummy butterflies are in full flights. Um, this still doesn't feel all that natural, but there has been a shift and I'm probably about 20% less nervous than my first episode a few weeks ago. Tell me, have you ever had a time where you've still managed to achieve a really big goal in the face of extreme nervousness?
Speaker 3 00:03:23 Look, I think that this is a challenge for everybody. It's a human challenge, and anybody who says that they aren't nervous at particular points, and you just have to work your way through it and to a certain degree, uh, suck up the nervousness in order to move forward. It happens to me all the time. Some people think, I enjoy public speaking, I don't enjoy it at all, and I do a fair bit of public speaking. And what I find helps me is to practice and do some research. The more confident I can get around something that I'm nervous about, the better the outcome. Um, another thing that, you know, I tend to be quite nervous about is confrontation. Most people don't like confrontation, but as you know, the more senior you get within a company, the more you do have to put boundaries and the way that you do it.
Speaker 3 00:04:23 So I tend to think quite a bit about how I'm going to position something, um, before I have a confrontation so that I try not to attack the individual, but to try and empathize a little bit upfront. And even physical things. You know, I started Pilates a few months ago and I didn't have the balance that I thought. So I thought instead of giving up, I'm going to make this a goal that I can actually do lunges without holding onto the bar. So I think it's part of a, all of our daily lives. And one of the things that's really important, I think for the business community in Australia is to talk about the things that we don't do well, the fact that we are nervous sometimes mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that there are things that scare us so that you don't feel so much alone.
Speaker 2 00:05:10 Absolutely. And, and I think that, that there's some really good points there, Connie. I think showing vulnerability is something that I've noticed, um, is we're starting to do a lot more of, um, as human beings in, in the said business community. In my experience, I've found that if you, if you can show vulnerability, you are a lot more human and people respect that and people respond to that, and you can actually avoid some of the conflicts that, that maybe you are, you are talking about by showing that humanity and understanding that, you know, in the end, we, we both wanna achieve effectively the same goal. We both wanna achieve a consensus and solve a problem. Um, you know, let's just, let's just get on with it and, and accept. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:05:52 And I think particularly for men, what defines a man is changing. I know that some really good work is being done by organizations like the man cave, where they're saying, even if you are an incredible sports person, or even if you are, you know, a rugby or a soccer star, whatever, it doesn't mean that you don't have your own demons and that you don't need friends, and that you can't open up and trust other individuals to be there to support you. It no longer means, you know, the stiff upper lip, et cetera, because that's just not working anymore, as you can see from the mental health issues mm-hmm. <affirmative> that are coming thick and fast.
Speaker 2 00:06:40 Absolutely. Absolutely. And are you finding that there's been a quite a shift over the years, um, especially of late, um, in terms of how men conduct themselves and, and also, you know, on the, on the inverse, um, how, how women are received in the business community, particularly at senior levels?
Speaker 3 00:06:58 Yes. I think there's still pockets of what I would call old school thinking, but I think it is changing. And part of that is that I was doing a presentation at Sydney University be about five years ago now, and the whole community and entrepreneurial community in particular is shifting. I think, uh, maybe six or seven years ago, had I done that presentation, all of the questions would've been, how do I join this large scale global company? How do I progress, et cetera. And before I did the presentation, it was basically to MBA students, and it was just before they broke, you know, for the holidays. And I was told, look, it'll probably just be half an hour. Nobody will ask questions and then they'll leave. We went on for an hour in a bit, and we actually had to cut the class, but none of the questions were about how do I join this large global accounting firm or legal firm?
Speaker 3 00:08:05 All of the questions were about how do I enjoy my life more and set up a company, a startup, and, you know, just correcting some of the fallacies. Cuz you know, starting a company sometimes takes up much more of your personal time than even working for a large firm. But I think it was a lot about passion. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and about how do I create the right culture in my small company? What do I need to look for if I have partners? Um, like legal agreements at the beginning, everybody, when they leave university, they're on the same page, right? You just left university, mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but some will get married, some won't, some will no longer want to do that. How do you cater for that legally? And with equity and all of those kind of questions, it was a completely different set of students leaving and you could see that what they wanted out of life was distinctly different, um, than even six or seven years ago.
Speaker 2 00:09:12 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you, you mentioned, um, you mentioned, I think touching on the notion of balance. Um, and that's something that personally when I was finishing uni and I was, and I was starting my first job, um, there wasn't really a whole lot of conversations about that. So it was basically, you know, how do we get the most money through the door? How do we get the most contacts? Uh, how do we do the most deals these days? I think from, from my experience, anyway, that is still important, but we are starting to, to grasp this notion that to actually be truly successful, it's not about just being financially successful, it's about having a well-balanced lifestyle, good interactions with people, close connections, maybe charity. Um, and I know that you're obviously a, a a very balanced person. We've had many, many conversations around the importance of balance. Um, tell us what, what, what's been your experience with, um, with, with that sort of shift?
Speaker 3 00:10:07 Look, I think, um, balance isn't about working eight hours a day and then going out and doing, you know, something else with friends or family, whatever. I really am a stronger advocate for integration. So life's integration of different things that you enjoy, because if you really love what you're doing and you happen to work 14 hours at that in a particular day, does it matter? As long as you've got the support of those around you, and if you are in the right frame of mind and you're not coming home grumpy because you did work that 14 hours, I don't think it really matters. So I think in integrated life, the way that some people can bring their animals to work now or, you know, some people can have days where they're working from home, that even if they're present with their partner, they're still around and it matters.
Speaker 3 00:11:00 So this work-life balance, I personally think is sort of quite a, a dying sort of way of thinking about how you integrate into your life, the things that are important to you that drive happiness. And you're seeing that not just at an individual level, but at a corporate level. The bottom line used to be everything. And I had a conversation at one of my boards recently where I said, but these benefits are going to affect the bottom line. You understand that? And they said, yes, but the bottom line needs to be affected because things like benefits to the employees and climate, you know, consciousness, et cetera, are just as important now for the sustainability of life on the planet. So those are conversations that you would never have had before. It would've been about maximizing the bottom line, but now, you know, trying to retain staff, trying to ensure that we're doing the right thing by the planet so that those that come after us have a chance of living a fulfilling life. All of those things now are coming into an equation of happiness.
Speaker 2 00:12:16 Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and speaking of, um, of happiness and balance, I, I guess the, the pandemic really threw a bit of a spanner in the works for, for all of us. Um, you know, we went basically from a stage of working, coming into the office five days a week to having to work from home and adjust our culture. And I remember very, very, very clearly, uh, back in 2020 when, um, when one view that the company you were the CEO of was, was being sold, and we're all working from home and we're all trying to find our little balance in life. Um, but I think it actually necessitated, uh, a larger shift in how we do business and how we value our relationships. Because coming back to your point earlier, we could spend more time with our loved ones. So for a lot of people, including myself, the actual happiness actually increased because we got more time to spend with our loved ones, and then we be became more productive. And then that actually affected the bottom line in the end. Um, but I think now we're starting to see a whole different dynamic playing out with companies, trying to get people back in. What do you think is the future, um, that, that beholds us?
Speaker 3 00:13:29 Maybe if I tell you, I, I always find it interesting to read something that confronts you. And my generation in the workforce has very much been about the importance of culture, um, how that kind of binds people, et cetera. And an article I wrote I read about six months ago said, culture's dead. We need to rethink the way that companies operate. And this package of flexibility isn't about working from home or going into the office. It's about if you come in five days a week, should you get rewarded more from a remuneration point of view? If you want to work from Tuscany two months of the year and you can still do your job, does it really matter? And it was much more redefining now about the fulfillment of the individual within a corporate environment versus this concept of culture, which is an umbrella for what drives everybody within the organization and their behaviors.
Speaker 3 00:14:46 And the reason I found that confronting is that that was such an important factor in how you managed an organization. But when you think about it, the more that you decentralize and the less that you have visibility to people face-to-face, and that's always happened in global organizations, but usually you have a leader, this is real decentralization into homes or physical premises that you may never see your boss. I've known people that have started work and haven't seen ever met their bosses, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> face-to-face yet. So the question is how do we look after and get people over a longer period of time to still be productive and to deal with the disharmony, for instance, that might come from a role where you actually have to be present at work, in the work premises versus somebody who has the latitude to work anywhere in the world. And that really made me start thinking about what it really means for the workforce moving forward. I don't have an answer, but I did find the article quite confronting because we're all assuming that culture is still important, but isn't,
Speaker 2 00:16:15 I think, um, I guess it depends on whether as an organization you are output focused or location and time and people focused, if we can put it maybe in those terms. Maybe there's a better way of explaining it in the end, if you are actually achieving the set objective and you know, the, the task is done, it's done well on time, on budget, does it really need to matter where it's done? If it's done on the moon, or if it's done in Tuscany?
Speaker 3 00:16:46 It doesn't. But that, the point is, if you're a nurse, you can't do that.
Speaker 2 00:16:50 That's true.
Speaker 3 00:16:51 <laugh>, right? So you really need to think about each role that somebody is undertaking. And let's say that you're an administrator of a hospital and you don't need to be in all the time, and you are doing your work, let's say two months a year from Tuscany, but the nurse has to show up every day and look after the patients. How do you deal with that? There's a whole new set of problems that are emerging that, you know, are much more difficult to get a grip on. Um, even w h s issues, how do you know that people are sitting in the right chairs? Like if it's in an office, you can pretty well see it. When people are working from home, even if they're showing up in a good chair, whether they're zooming, it doesn't mean that they're not sitting on a couch with their laptop on their knees, you know, for the majority of the day or whatever. And all of a sudden back problems emerge. There's a whole, it, it is really a paradigm shift. And I think it's probably a lot broader and deeper, um, than we realize because we have been dealing with covid, and so many people say, how many days a week are you going into the office? Or whatever. That's the conversation. The conversation is so much broader than that.
Speaker 2 00:18:08 Hmm. And, and I guess it, it started with the pandemic, but now I'm starting to see and, and read articles about AI and, and the paradigm altogether shifting, um, with the help of robotics and, and serious automation and actually replacing of certain functions that, that are being done by humans right now. Um, I'm not sure I'm sort of reading it with a bit of trepidation that for now we're broadly quite safe, but, uh, but it's, it's definitely heading in an interesting direction and it's heading there really fast.
Speaker 3 00:18:39 Well, it is, but AI is used for many purposes, as, you know, going back to the mental health issue. Um, there are applications now that are reading text and, you know, seeing or trying to at least read what the mental health position of somebody is, if the words are changing over a period of time and things like this. So look, I, I think part of why we're not looking at this so deeply is it's actually quite frightening because we don't have control over as much as, you know, particularly leaders. It feels like with a combination of covid, which really took us all by surprise as a global pandemic, um, with the decentralization of the workforce, the mental health issues, the tug of war between things like climate change and sustainable decisions, even in portfolios versus the bottom line. It's quite a complex environment we're operating in, not to mention things like gender identification issues, et cetera, which have come to the fore. So I think my career started out in a much simpler way, I think, than people who are entering the workforce now. Uh, particularly graduates who might not have exposure to the same kind of learning through osmosis that most people took for granted when I started work.
Speaker 2 00:20:13 Absolutely. And in terms of, um, in terms of, let's, let's, if we draw on the, the, um, the notion of, of graduate finishing school today, they have social media, which I didn't even have when I was finishing school. You know, I had MSN messenger, um, I'm not sure what you had back in the day, but probably not none of the above. That this, this, you've also got this added paradigm of comparing yourself to others. And, and I just say that it's, it's so incredibly toxic, both in a personal and, and in a business setting as well. Um, because you, you can never really measure up to, to other people, you can never be good enough. There's always gonna be someone wealthier than you or better looking than you, or whatever measure you want to throw at it. There's always someone else. And I just feel like if we try and continuously compare ourselves to others, that is definitely a road towards misery, um, depression and anxiety. Um, do, do you feel that that's sort of been your experience with, um, with, with the younger generation coming in?
Speaker 3 00:21:14 Look, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly, I think of each generation has its, um, strengths and weaknesses. For instance, the generation that I see now is much more conscious of having a designated driver than the people that, for instance, came before me and things like that. The problem I think with social media is anonymity more than anything else. If you can't put your name to something, um, it's very hard to track it. And it's very easy to hide behind it. Like for the average person, unless you're a forensic, you know, <laugh>, um, it has had a lot of benefits, but I think the mental health side of it, and the bullying side of it is again, something where it's very hard in the legal fraternity to really catch up with what's happening because it's happening so quickly. I am not a perfectionist. I think it's probably one of my strengths and one of my weaknesses, but one of my strengths in not being a perfectionist is I don't really compare myself to other people, and I don't really look for a perfect outcome. And when it's not a perfect outcome, I can per forgive myself quite quickly and move on. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so
Speaker 2 00:22:39 You march to the beat of your own drum,
Speaker 3 00:22:41 Pardon
Speaker 2 00:22:41 Me. You march to the beat of your own drum.
Speaker 3 00:22:45 And I think that, I don't know whether that is trained or whether it's just the way that you're born or socialized. I, I'm not sure. Um, but I do think that the people that struggle with that the most are perfectionists. Um, I see it with the young people around me who wanna get the perfect marks. They wanna have the perfect hair, they wanna, and remember within the social media environment, with a lot of the apps, you can change the size of your waist and your butt and your boobs and you know, or your hair, uh, how much hair you have as a man and how much muscle you have. And so you don't know what's real and what's not. Anyhow, so when you look at that, you think even what you're aspiring to may not be real. So yeah, I do think it's got its strengths and it's got its weaknesses, but one of the toughest things is to just understand that we're all human, we're all fallible, we all make mistakes. And to work on just accepting it and trying to move forward as a better person.
Speaker 2 00:24:00 A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Um, this is, this is such an important conversation to have, Connie, um, because I, I just feel like you are really denying yourself the full life experience. If all you're doing is focusing on this said perfection. Um, if all you're worried about is how you look or how top your marks are, you actually miss out on the journey along the way, you probably get to the destination eventually, and then you'll probably be like, okay, great. Now what? But missing out on that journey is, is something that, you know, I've, I've, I've been guilty of in the past. And actually my recent experience with starting this podcast, one of the things that I tried to work on is actually getting rid of this, this perfection mask. A podcast is not meant to be perfect and polished. And, and if it is, it's great. But if you miss out on the depth of, of the interaction and, and the set flaws that come with that in, in terms of just a normal conversation with someone, um, and, and script everything, then it's not enjoyable at all. And you're actually denying yourself the, the, the true benefits or you, you're denying yourself a good chunk of your life,
Speaker 3 00:25:12 And more importantly, you're connecting with the head and they hear what you're saying, but you're not really connecting with their heart because they know that you've still got your shield up. And you know, the best relationships are those where you are vulnerable, but you trust the other person with that vulnerability. You trust that they won't use it against you. And look, if it occurs that they do, you just, they're not a friend and you just eliminate them from your life if you can. It's just a fact. You can't have everybody go on every cycle of your life with you.
Speaker 2 00:25:47 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. And, and I think, um, you know, when, when we caught up last, we, we spoke about whether, you know, if somebody actually, when you have an interaction with someone, do you come away from them feeling better or worse as a result? And on, I mean, on a consistent basis, obviously, you know, we can have things in the middle, but yeah, I've, I've, I've actually really taken that, that advice on board personally, um, and reassess my relationships because life's too short. <laugh>, you only get one shot at it, and if you spend time people that make you feel consistently crap, it ain't worth it.
Speaker 3 00:26:21 Correct. And you know, it's one of the questions I used to get often when I was a CEO is, you know, you people particularly who knew I was offered jobs of large companies as a C E O, and I took what was on the border of insolvency company of one view and built it up from there. And they said, why did you do that? And I said, because the hardest choice I made was actually when I was at perpetual of status versus happiness. And sometimes status and happiness can go together, but for me, if you have status, but it's not something that you love and you're not doing it with majority of people that you like, you're not gonna have the happiness. And I'll choose something that has less of a profile and less money associated with it in order to be happy and not pay for it in my health and wellbeing.
Speaker 3 00:27:14 And that's, amen. Hard to do because it's easy to say, but it's really hard to make that decision when you have a big check over there and something where externally it would look like you're more successful. But over here you've got something that you know, would bring you happiness and that you would feel good about doing it, and that your body and soul is quiet in that then, you know, to pursue that means that the voice that you're listening to the most is actually your own. And sometimes that's really hard when you have a lot of external pressure
Speaker 2 00:27:56 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And have you had to make that choice before to actually walk away from the money and actually follow your heart and, and go for something that was truly align to your soul?
Speaker 3 00:28:07 Sure. I won't mention the companies I've done it, but as I said, the first time I did it, I was offered a very lucrative role. And I would've been probably one of the most senior women running a large company in Australia. Um, and I was very tired and I didn't really like the chairman of the company. I didn't think that it had a culture that I could turn around. And I took six months off and went trekking around Australia instead.
Speaker 2 00:28:36 Awesome, awesome.
Speaker 3 00:28:38 And I came back and I was ready to do something else, but it was very difficult. Even my own family were questioning my decision. Um, and that's where you've just gotta say, you've let, you've got your life, you can make your decisions. It's kind of like that way with children too. There are decisions that children want to make, and as much as you love them, you've got to ma let them make it. You've got to let them make those choices because it's their life. You've had your life, you've making those decisions, and you've gotta allow, if they ask for your counsel, you can give it. But the challenge is to not be disappointed if they don't follow it.
Speaker 2 00:29:17 Hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think to an extent, the same should also apply when you're a leader in an organization. Because if you are the micro imagining micromanaging type, then you're effectively taking away the agency and the decision making capacity of people through your micromanagement. If you allow people to grow and blossom under their own steam, you know, make mistakes that hopefully won't bring the company down, um, I think that would, that just breeds such a different, such a different type of person. And, and that's something that I really value about you. And, and the way that you ran. You ran things at one view. You gave people that agency, you gave people the opportunity to step up and lead. You didn't have to back me in terms of getting into that, that executive position, um, that you accepted me for, but obviously you saw something that <laugh> that you thought would work. Um, and you know, I'm, I'm very grateful for that and, and I feel that that actually allowed me to really spread my wings and grow. So I think that's, that, that can also be applied in the business world, right?
Speaker 3 00:30:20 Yes. But you're forgetting a bit of that equation, which is that if you weren't up to it, I would've moved you to another role, or I would've moved you on <laugh>. Um, and that's the other side of it, right?
Speaker 2 00:30:34 You can't do that with the child <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:30:37 And if you're going to give people that kind of latitude, if you know that they and I would back potential against experience literally every day of the week. Um, but if you give that person the latitude and the agency and they ask for it, if they make a few mistakes and they're aware of it, and they try to rectify the situation, move forward, that's a different story. Because everybody makes mistakes. And sometimes if you're not, you're not pushing hard enough. But if the person is clearly not up to it, you've gotta move them on or out
Speaker 2 00:31:17 Before there's a, before there's further contagion.
Speaker 3 00:31:21 Well, and because other people see it, if you start making those kind of compromises, then the high performers will look at the low performers that you're not dealing with, and they'll go, why am I here? I can get another job. And you'll have an organization full of low performing employees who are happy to stick because they don't have the confidence to go somewhere else. Um, and your high performers will leave, and then the whole company suffers.
Speaker 2 00:31:47 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and Connie, just changing gears a little bit, you seem like a very balanced person. And, um, you know, I I I, it's very clear and obvious that you live by your passion and your, you're passionate about a number of, number of great ventures. What's your secret formula to living by your true purpose?
Speaker 3 00:32:08 I, I really don't know what the answer to that is, other than I grew up in a very dysfunctional home. And I think when you see the damage that other people can do, if you don't follow your own path, or if you get affected by people and their volatility, et cetera, then you lose control over your own life and your own happiness. And you know, one of the examples I see every day is people who blame, this is my husband or my family or my this or my that. I'm this way because, and a lot of it is driven by the negativity of someone. And I grew up in a household where my genetic father was a violent alcoholic and I don't drink and I despise violence. And I think it's really important to say, do I want the person who's most negatively affected my life to be the person who has the most influence on my future?
Speaker 3 00:33:30 Or do I want the people who loved protected who I care about? Do I want them to be the most important people in my life? And the reality is, there is no shame in going and getting help. When I was in my late teens, I started to have terrible nightmares and panic attacks and I went, obviously this is affecting my life unconsciously. As much as I can consciously try and move forward, I'm just gonna have to go back and deal with this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it was a terrible 18 months of my life, you know, I thought, I'm never gonna get through this. It's just horrible. But you know what, I got up one day and I can't remember the last time I had a panic attack or one of these terrible nightmares or whatever. So, but there's no easy way through it. You actually have to work your way through it.
Speaker 3 00:34:25 And there's no such thing as going, oh, all of this, it doesn't affect me, trust me, it does. There's no way you can get to the other side. So in order to get through that, I was different in that I was always quite academic. I read a lot and people assumed that that's valued within a family unit. But in my family unit and my father's family, et cetera, it wasn't right. Hunting and fishing and, you know, violence and drinking is the thing that made you something. So I think I had to find my own way and at a very early age, and when, I don't know if any of the listeners come from alcoholic homes, but there's no such thing as an alcoholic individual. And this is a lesson for anybody who's in a relationship with somebody who is like that because it sucks the other person in as well.
Speaker 3 00:35:25 In fact, the whole thing. So for a large part of my young life, I would say, if it wasn't for my grandparents, you know, I don't know what would've happened because my parents in my mind were vacant, um, because they were so absorbed in each other. Um, and then when my father left the family home, my mother went from strength to strength. And I do think that things like the safe houses for women or you know, men if they need them, are really important. Because when she was in that relationship, I could see herself confidence, her value, very much diminished. When my father left, my mother now has a master's in psychology. She became a very good psychologist. She found her own rhythm. So, you know, one of the things that was really became clear to me is it's really important who you choose to have in your life and none more so than the partner you choose.
Speaker 3 00:36:32 And my grandmother was just such an influence on me. And I can remember, you know, cuz I was very athletic and academic and things when I was in school, so, you know, quite popular by most standards despite what was going on at home. And my grandmother said to me, A lot of people will ask you to dance darling, but the most important decision you're gonna make in your life is, who do you want to dance with? And it sounds like a very simple phrase, but what she was doing is, ironically, when her own daughter didn't do it, she was giving me power to say, you're not the recipient of someone else's decisions. Right. You are in control of your life. The decisions that you make and who you choose to allow into your life and who you choose to affect you. And I think I must have been at a vulnerable age because that went straight to my heart and it really changed a lot of my life.
Speaker 3 00:37:36 Um, and I could have gone either way. There were points in my life I could have very easily spiraled, you know, but I didn't, I didn't spiral because somehow I had that internal strength to say, this is not who I wanna be and this is not the life I wanna lead. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is the life I want to lead. And I never meant to lead a company or whatever else, but because I had very low expectations of all of that, it was more about what makes me happy and won't allow me to spiral. Um, and that's really what drove a lot of my life.
Speaker 2 00:38:18 Wow. Connie, thank you so much firstly for, for sharing such a deep and, and, and personal insight, um, in into your past. It's, it sounds like it was a, a very tough upbringing. Um, and to be put in that situation from a very young age and to have to find that fortitude within yourself, um, yeah, thank you, thank you very much for sharing that. That's, that's very profound. Do you feel like the, the backing of yourself, the, the fortitude that you did have to find at that point in time, did that effectively form the way in which you conduct your life and business for the future? Was that like a very formative event for you?
Speaker 3 00:39:05 It was probably more about I am more uncomfortable being unhappy than I am dealing with the fears of reaching for happiness. And the same applies for starting companies. It would've been harder for me to not do one view than it was with all of the challenges that one view had. And it's going back to listening to your own voice. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right? One of the things, hopefully anybody that's listening today, your voice is a really important one. Even if you're on the wrong track at the moment, whatever you do know, what can get you out of that. You do know what can bring you peace. And it might be something completely different to someone else, but that voice that you have, it will act in your best interests. Usually if you can just let it out and know that sometimes the pathway to the other side is a difficult pathway, but if you have a vision of where you can go at the end of it, it'll help you through the adversity that you need to go through in order to get to the other side.
Speaker 3 00:40:28 And yeah, a lot of my friends from high school, et cetera, you know, they died of, um, drug overdoses or they got involved in one of them who had the same name as me, Connie actually, she was beautiful and smart and she got involved in a, um, bikey gang at the time and she got shot. Mm-hmm. So it's going back to, you know, and, and sometimes you need to make choices about day-to-day activities where, you know, it might be a harder decision in the short term, but it's an easier one in the long term. And my friends and I often have, you know, discussions around things. Uh, do you marry someone who you're wildly passionate about that you just met? Right. Or your best friend over here where maybe you don't have the same degree of passion. What are the pros and cons of each? Those are conscious decisions sometimes.
Speaker 2 00:41:32 Absolutely. I, I love that last reference because that was actually a decision, um, I was sort of grappling with when, when I first met my wife, um, I didn't know her at all. Um, and there was this red, hot, fiery passion and I've never experienced it in my life. And I sort of had, you know, a few friends and and family that had a bit of trepidation and they, they weren't sure what's going on here, cuz it kind of went from zero to a hundred real quick. But I trusted my gut, trusted the heart, and I went with it. And, you know, we're married for five years now, been together for 10 and yeah, I, I consider her my soulmate. It's, it was, that was one of the first decisions of my life that I actually went with trusting my gut. And I don't regret it at all. Don't regret it all. So that, that's really good advice. Thanks for sharing that, Connie.
Speaker 3 00:42:22 Well, I've been with my husband for, well we didn't get married for a long time in but 30 some years now. And from the moment I saw him, I thought, he's my yang to my ying, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and yeah, but other, I have another friend who consciously made a decision to not go that way. She was a political figure. The person that she was involved with, uh, led a very different kind of life with, uh, open relationships, et cetera, didn't particularly bother her, but she thought it would affect her career in her life. And she went another direction. She doesn't regret it either, but again, just try and bring it to the consciousness and say, this is how I feel. But now the decisions that I make around it are my choice. And that is the greatest gift my grandmother gave me, is really to take control of my own life as much as possible. And even when life doesn't go according to plan, um, to know that the way that I react is still within my control.
Speaker 2 00:43:29 And it's all, it's all part of the journey. You know, life's not meant to all be a bit of roses because if it's all a bit of roses and it's always positive, um, then how are you ever going to actually appreciate that? What are you gonna have to compare against if, if the negatives don't happen? A a saying that I really love is actually live in your conviction, not in your convenience. Um, that's, that's a personal favorite of mine, <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:43:54 And I think the other thing is empathy. You know, if you do come through adversity and some of the most incredible people I know have endured incredible diversity, um, and I think it makes them humble because, you know, we're all on a very fine line. Um, I think it allows them to empathize. I mean, the people that I connect with the least are people who, you know, here's my new yacht, here's my new car, here's my new this. You can't get into who they are. And you know, that gossipy sort of, um, you know, she did this or sh he doesn't have that or whatever. I have absolutely no time for that. Um, and I don't want to lead that kind of superficial life.
Speaker 2 00:44:53 And it, and it sounds like, um, I, I know that you are sitting on the board of, of quite a few very interesting organizations. Um, it sounds like that's definitely not sort of the, the path that you've taken, um, after you, you sold the company. Um, can you talk a little bit about, um, where, where, where you've ended up these days and and what are some of the ventures you're passionate about?
Speaker 3 00:45:13 Well, look, what I'd like to talk about the most is the work that we've done on the foundation in education. Because some of the, we are, uh, sponsoring our 14th, 15th, and 16th, uh, child now through either elementary school or from high school through university. And the first two, um, interestingly enough, it has been predominantly women at the beginning and then young women. Now it's been young men, but the first two one was Shauna in Canada and she's a First Nations, um, young lady. She was in her last year of high school and I have a selection committee over there. We, my husband and I have a selection and they said there's something about her, we can explain it. Her marks are average. Um, but we just think she won't go to university unless it's funded. She doesn't have the money, she comes from a large family.
Speaker 3 00:46:10 Um, her parents are currently separated, et cetera. And I said, okay, we'll give it a go. And you fast forward and she graduated from the university with a criminology degree. Wow. She set up the first indigenous program in the university that she went to, um, Bishop's University. And the interesting thing is, you know, she presented to the foundation, she's been a year or two out and two things that so impressed me. One, she asked for a raise, um, because she'd been there, um, for 18 months now and she felt she was doing two jobs cuz another person left and she knew her value, but she also talked about her upbringing and why she said, I got my degree because one role one year rolled onto another and I knew the money was there and I thought, well, if I don't use the money, they're gonna take it away and they've given it to me, so I'll do another year.
Speaker 3 00:47:04 She said, the next thing you know, guess what? I had a degree. The interesting thing is her older sister has now gone back to school and she's reconnected with her indigenous roots. And she said that was not encouraged as she was growing up, um, very much because her mom said, don't talk about your indigenous roots, just don't acknowledge them, don't identify with them, et cetera. And she's gained her own power. And I wrote her a letter and said, I'm so proud of you that you've come out the other side of this. And not only do you see yourself as a whole person, of which the indigenous part is such a big part of you, but also that you know your worth and that you walked into somebody's office and asked for a raise. Good for you. Fantastic. And then one of our first students in Australia came from a single mom and I wrote too, in this case, PLC Koan got her into private school with her mom's permission.
Speaker 3 00:48:07 And, um, she became a registered nurse. She's now doing her master's and she's head of our, uh, psychiatric W ring, uh, um, at Shell Harbor Hospital. And our latest, and I'm sure Harry doesn't mind us talking about that, was from a single family. And that's why I absolutely hate these gambling ads. The family was left quite destitute because of gambling. And the father left the family home and he received a scholarship to university in place, first grade rugby. And he's such a nice person. So when you see that your faith in people and a little bit of money can transform not just their life, but what you forget is the ripple effect Absolutely. From it, it's incredible. And nothing makes me happier. And they've become a part of our family. Like our house, when you get back to perfectionism, people come into our house, they serve themselves, they do it.
Speaker 3 00:49:14 You know, I don't feel the stress of people being here because I'm not going to impose that on other people. If, you know, the utensils end up in the wrong drawer, whatever, I don't care. I care that they feel comfortable enough with Michael and I that they'll come into our home and feel at home. That is the most important thing to us. Um, so yeah, and the advisory work, um, or board that I do either involves cl something like future super or involves, um, working for better diversity and pay, like I'm chair the Financee Women's Index. So yeah, I am doing this for you, Daniel, um, because I value the people at OneView, but I keep a pretty low profile these days. I haven't today had any public companies that have interested me so much that I want the profile or the risk anymore. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I've had those times, I've had those days, who knows what the next cycle will be. But yeah, I'm very happy to lead a quieter life.
Speaker 2 00:50:24 Yep. And, and I think, um, you're, you're probably, uh, how should I say, uh, un underselling it because you took a, a company that was effectively under administration and you made it, you made it profitable, and you made it employed such a really amazing array of people. Um, but now you're making this great impact in, in other ways. So thank you Connie. That's, that's something really to celebrate and and appreciate the, the contribution to to society.
Speaker 3 00:50:50 Well, I think the interesting thing about that is if somebody said, is it equal because of the money that we've given particularly to education? And I would say we've received a lot more than we've ever given. And that's the thing is that again, my grandmother, who was probably the greatest influence on my life, and she was very French Canadian, like if there's such a thing, you know, the tortiers, the apron, when you arrived home, uh, she was incredible. She was just an incredible person. And she drew a pie chart and she said, try and have a slice of four pieces of your life. Always one for yourself. If you don't look after yourself first and foremost, your physical and mental health, then it's very hard for you to not feel depleted when you have to give to someone else. Two, always, no matter how busy you are, leave room in your life for friends and family because when times get tough or whatever, you're gonna really need them and hope, you know, there will be times when they will need you.
Speaker 3 00:51:59 Um, three work, and I don't mean just paid work, but doing something that you think is of value on a day-to-day basis. And if you look at Covid, the people who had the greatest trouble coping with that is people didn't have goals each day to make them get up, get showered or whatever it is they wanted to do and to move forward. And the last is charity. And charity isn't, you know, even if you only make $10,000 a year, it's a little bit that hurts. It's the dress you give to a friend mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, where it hurts a little bit, but you want it's charity in the most basic sense of making a sacrifice of something that you could have for yourself that you choose to give to someone else. And one of the lessons I learned, which is quite interesting, if anybody is listening to this, who does give to charity, the food banks, um, we used to give quite a bet in, well, I'll tell you, I used to go on the Woolies Online, look for the half price non-perishables, buy them and you know, send them every quarter to the food bank.
Speaker 3 00:53:08 And one quarter I didn't have time. So I said to a friend of mine, Kim, why don't you just go and buy X amount of, uh, meat vouchers in our case, a local Bush's meat where you can only buy meat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and a place Mitchells where you can only buy fruit and vegetables. So why don't we just go and get a couple of those gift certificates and give those instead. The food bank in the elora came back to us and said, my goodness, that has changed something that we didn't realize. A lot of the people who are getting the food from the food banks are getting yet another handout. Right. Because the cans have already been decided, whether you like peas or not, it doesn't matter, they're getting peas. But when you give them the vouchers, in many occasions they made it an outing with their kids.
Speaker 3 00:54:03 Particularly cuz a lot of these families are single parent families. They would go to the butcher and they would go, now what would we like, you know, sausages or mints or pork chops or whatever. And all of a sudden you're giving them control over their decisions. Mm-hmm. And I won't be buying, I won't be just doing the non-perishables anymore now that I know. It gives them some control over their life and their decisions. Again, we will always get those coupons along with that. And it's something we just hadn't thought of, and it was by accident. And even the food bank was quite surprised of the downstream implications of making an outing going with your kids, helping them know as a family that they can decide what they eat, not someone who's donating it.
Speaker 2 00:54:53 And, and it gives them skills as well. So it actually gives them the decision making skills in order to transition back into society and actually become productive members of it. Because that's what happens in the real world. You have decisions to make you action them, and then, you know, you bear the consequences Good, good and bad of their decisions. So good on you. That's, that's, that's a really awesome story to tell
Speaker 3 00:55:14 Because what you don't want is to ever take away people's pride
Speaker 2 00:55:19 Yep. And, and agency. Correct. Connie, I feel like this, this four quadrants, um, matter that you've brought up, that that could be a whole podcast episode in itself. Um, and if, if you're happy to come back, I'd, I'd love to actually unpack that further, um, maybe in another episode. Um, so I think,
Speaker 3 00:55:39 Well, as you know, Daniel, I very much appreciated the people I had around me. At one View. We had, I remember about 15 years ago in one of the organizations I worked with, they had the Myers-Briggs, which we used to do at, um, at OneView as you know, but on top of it, they brought in a psychiatrist and they looked at how we managed stress and things like that. Um, and then one of the questions we had to answer was, give me three words about how you feel. And there were about 12 of us in the room and people would go around and almost everybody would say, I feel a bit stressed, or I feel, you know, uh, sad or whatever. And they got to me and I really, I was a second to last I remember, and I had some time to think about it. And I said, I feel loved and I do, I feel so grateful in my life that I can genuinely say there's a large number of people that I deeply and honestly love and who I feel that back and what more could you really want out of life?
Speaker 2 00:56:52 Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. That's, I, I don't know, I think, I think I don't need to add anything further. You've, you've said it brilliantly. If, if that's the way that you feel coming, coming out of, um, of, of earning a company such as that. Um, and, and also from around the people that you surround yourself with, with your other outside of work ventures, um, that to me is living a, a truly balanced life. And, and I think a great example to, to all of us. So thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3 00:57:23 Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker 2 00:57:25 So Connie, I think, um, that's, that's probably a, a wrap for today. Um, as I said, I'd love to unpack the, the four quadrants further with you. Maybe, uh, maybe in a future episode, if, if you'll have me again, um, just before we go, signature question, um, brief signature question. If you could go back to your 20 year old self, what would be the one piece of advice you would give?
Speaker 3 00:57:49 Hmm. If you had to go back? That's a tough question. I think I would be kinder to some people. Sometimes you don't realize when you're younger how much you might hurt people. And I had a relationship when I was in my early twenties and I just wanted my freedom. And I think I was cruel in the process. And I can remember going to elementary school and there was a particular kid who he didn't smell very good when he came to class and he got up very early. He was a farmer, et cetera. And I look back and I go, I think I was cruel. And I look back and I wish that I had the knowledge I did today, and I wish I wouldn't have said the things that I did. That's probably, I would say try and be kind always. I, and you know, it's one of the qualities I most value. I don't like a meanness in people. I do appreciate kindness
Speaker 2 00:59:13 And I think kindness will get reciprocated if, if you give it. Um,
Speaker 3 00:59:19 So not always, but you
Speaker 2 00:59:20 Do, hopefully <laugh>. Good advice. Good advice. Well, again, Connie, thank you so much for coming on the show with me today. Um, it's been really good to, to reconnect again. Um, and, and I think you've brought some really amazing and, and insightful, um, insightful points, uh, to, to the table if users do wanna, sorry, if listeners do wanna connect with you further, what's the best way for, for them to get in touch? Is it LinkedIn? Something like that? Yeah, probably on LinkedIn, yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Excellent. They have it. Dear listeners, um, thank you very much for, for tuning in. If you've enjoyed this episode, would really, really welcome and appreciate your feedback. Like, subscribe, comments, all that good stuff. Thanks for letting me, your ears. Wherever in the world you are, may success be with you.
